I am a 52 year old who has been a serving ADF member since 1980. My wife and I like to ride on weekends, and the occasional longer ride as the mood takes us. I have never been a member of any motor cycle club. I am a law abiding citizen.
In accordance with the VLAD act, if we ride with two or more others we can be done with ‘association’, which is defined as:
any other group of 3 or more persons by whatever name called, whether associated formally or informally and whether the group is legal or illegal.
But that’s not the main problem as I see it. As has been stated earlier in this thread the VLAD act does not mention motorcycle gangs specifically. There is no mention of the word ‘motorcycle’. To me that means that therefore this act can apply to any group of people. Now that may sound somewhat alarmist, but in my opinion this is the thin edge of the wedge.
At the risk of generalising, many years ago your average bikie gang were a bunch of blokes who probably drank too much, carried on like pork chops and liked riding around on their bikes with their mates. One rarely heard boo from them, unless one was silly enough to piss them off. However over the years we have seen the ‘gangster’ element take over some of the more notable ‘outlaw motorcycle clubs’ (OMCGs) to the extent where their activities are encroaching more and more upon the day to day lives of the general public. Like it or not, the general public now associates the illegal drug trade (among other illegal activities) with OMCGs.
I can understand the frustration of the Queensland government. It seems every couple of days we see another assault/robbery/drug bust etc in Queensland (usually the Gold Coast - bloody dump!). The public has an expectation that their elected government will act to reduce crime levels in their community. However it is the way they are going about it that concerns me.
After reading the Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment Bill 2013 (even the name sounds slightly hysterical!) I fail to see why a bespoke piece of legislation such as this is needed. If the police suspect someone ( be that person a bike, an accountant, a politician or whomever) is committing an offence, surely there are laws already in place that allow the police to arrest those individuals.
In my opinion what the public perceives as ‘bike crime’ is a symptom of a larger problem; that is piss weak sentencing. I sympathise with the police in that they work hard to apprehend a crim and bring him (or her – mustn’t discriminate, after all!) to court only to have a limp–dicked, bolshy, pinko, socialist judge let them off with a stern word and a jolly good frowning at. I particularly find alarming the number of cases where the perpetrators have committed an offence whilst on parole. Throw some stiff sentences at the fuckers and watch the crime rates fall. I realise that there are many that believe the opposite is true, but I bet they have not been victims of crime. (Oops – lost my cool there!!)
On December 1 I did what I have never done before – I protested. My wife and I rode to Melbourne and joined about 6000 others at Parliament House in Melbourne to voice our concerns about similar legislation being introduced in Victoria. What I found interesting was that the majority of those there that day were not from OMCGs (although they certainly were there), but people like us – everyday Australians who just happen to ride motorcycles. Ironically I received a fine in the mail the other day. Just happens that on the way to Parliament House with a bunch of other riders I ran red light! Now as I was in a group of about a dozen, would that have meant I would have been in the shit if I were in Queensland?
All motorcycle riders are not criminals, and all criminals are not motorcycle riders. Government needs to back their police force, and the judiciary need to sentence the guilty in accordance with community expectations.
Do not mess with my liberties by passing poor legislation.
well said mate I am so glad that people are reading these laws and commenting on them
There is no need for a set of laws like this in Australia we already have in place laws to cover all forms of crime
what we really need is as Andreas has stated tougher sentencing and tougher judges, magistrates
Looks like someone has gone on holidays!
You don't even have to ride a bike to end up going to jail in Queensland thanks to Campbell Newman and his Government with the new laws they have brought in, have a read of this article for all you non believer's out there this is true not fiction.
Joshua Shane Carew sat in solitary confinement for 15 days in Bisbane's Watchhouse where there is no TV, no radio, just a basin, toilet and a concrete bed with one blanket. He is now in Queensland’s Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre. His wife and two young children Holly (4) and Jake (2) have missed him terribly over Christmas and he has not been allowed to phone them or have them visit him.
He has been in jail for the past 21 days, and has only recently been allowed a shower and had not had a change of clothes for 15 days. He was told by QLD Chief Justice Carmody, when refusing him bail, to reflect on the cost to his family over the festive season.
Justice Carmody has been assigned by the Newman government to handle bikies’ court cases.
So, exactly what crime was Joshua Carew alleged to have committed that deserved denial of bail and such harsh emotional punishment without trial?
Well, it’s hard to believe, but you see Joshua runs a pizza shop in Nambour, QLD, and he works long hours with his wife who bakes the pizzas and he delivers them.
Unfortunately three weeks ago Joshua was delivering an order to the Yandina pub.
Now, Yandina is a pretty small town and the person he was delivering the pizza to happened to be his brother-in-law, a Rebels bikie, who was noticed by police accepting the pizza on the pub’s surveillance video.
Joshua didn’t stay for a drink as he had lots of rapidly cooling pizzas yet to be delivered but he unknowingly had just committed a serious offence under Premier Campbell Newman’s new anti-association laws.
He was arrested by Sgt Wade Lee of the Sunshine Coast Police and placed in solitary confinement, where he sat wondering what the hell he did wrong.
In refusing bail Justice Carmody said bikies would "have to be living under a rock'' if they did not know they faced a mandatory six-month jail term for simply "having a beer with three or more mates".
But Joshua didn’t have a beer, they were not his “mates”, he is not a bikie, has never belonged to a bikie club, he has never owned a bike and vehemently denies ever having dealt in drugs, yet he is likely to spend the next six months in jail because his brother-in-law decided to order a pizza.
It appears the right of freedom of association, afforded us under our Constitution, can lead to some pretty serious jail time. His case comes up for mention on January 6.
I copped plenty of flak a month back for suggesting Campbell Newman’s legislation was undemocratic and could lead to abuse by police and the judiciary.
Perhaps this is just one example of what I feared.
[NB: Before closing the Nambour pizza shop, and rather than have all the ingredients go to waste, almost 300 pizzas were offered to the most needy. They didn’t last long.]
well done Wayne for bringing this to everyones attention not all of us live in QLD but you can guarantee the other states are watching and will follow suit.
Also for those on facebook there is a free the Yandina 5 page
Here is another petition if anyone wants to sign it.
VICIOUS LAWLESS ASSOCIATION DISESTABLISHMENT BILL 2013 "VLAD"
So The QLD Government Claims to be the leader in Australian States in the WAR against crime?
a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.noun
a serious disagreement or argument, typically a protracted one.
I personally find the use of the term ''WAR & Conflict'' by the QLD Government in this case Degrading and Insulting to those who have actual fought & Died for our County in actual WARS not only in the past but presently both Civil and Global-
So moving on, Let's not forget that clearly QLD had constitutional laws "in place already" before the intro of VLAD that more than cover'd any response necessary to crime ''not Bloody War'' & yes the small percentage of identified Bikie & Gang crime too! "That's right more than adequate Laws" as do all other states in this fastly degenerating Country of ours- or is it actually ours? or the fascist pricks apparently running it? or corporate fat Cats the Puppeteers of our Governments? Breath!
State & federal inadequacy's of Governance and Policeing are no excuss to fashion a new world order as a bolster for previous overwhelming uselessness and poor management of society & it's perfectly functional existing laws etc, yet the majority of our Sheeple population just sit back & either say nothing or are so stupid to actually applaud a State government that's clearly off the rails and sending a state & potentially a Country down the Preverbial Gurgule'r!.
Clearly there's more to this smoke and light show & Bikie diversion than Newman & Bleijie "The Megalomaniac Dynamic duo" have in store, not to mention the many Acts, environmental, mining, and tick offs that have been passed ever so quietly in the past two months that would have normaly caused major social & community uproar! not to mention the management and policing of coming APEC SUMMIT in QLD, Yer strangely Quiet-
All in All the small amount of So called Bikie and Gang crime in QLD "and let's face it a tiny percentage of the current crime list in QLD & since proven statistically" could have been curbed quietly, easily, effectively with Existing constitutional laws with out all the public "Look At Me" "how good are we" Bull Shit, & Alarmist & Fear campaigns from the Dynamic Duo, a self assuring measure akin to small Mans Disease.
Anyone that's thinks for a minute that Australia is in a good place at the moment is living a lie, the only way were going to get these politicians to do there jobs correctly is to wake up to what there actually doing now and say NO YOU DONT, we need far more of the general population "not just the MC community label'd across the board as the whole problem by a well managed media campaign & Witch Hunt " to wake up LOOK LISTEN SPEAK to get these bastard either out of office or at least doing their bloody jobs correctly and efficiently- VLAD affects everyone, its pointed towards everyone, and will be used against anyone & everyone-
Yer sure recognition may be slowly happening, but slow in this case doesn't cut it & in the mean time more draconian crap is being introduced not only in QLD but other states as well as a direct result of VLAD.
So for those of us fortunate enough to have an understanding of the "Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment Bill 2013" and all thats followed it, Keep talking to people other than the motorcycle community in fact as far from it as could be, were all well versed in the entire situation in QLD now, be calm, precise, informative and factual, be Patient, and realize there are some that will never get it EVER, History proves this & they can just wallow along in the muddy tide of conformity "it's ok nothing will affect us they say" YET
Yes & in reference to a state of armed conflict? 'WAR' after 2 1/2 months of raids on so called Dangerous bikie crime gangs 'Australia wide' what evidence has been stacked up to the huge Cache of illigal weapons reportedly hoarded by these groups? NIL NADA NOTHING yet the group that apparently are in the target of these Criminal Gangs OUR POLICE FORCE are armed in every possible way to handle this fanciful notion and certainly were prior to VLAD to combat this perceived aggression that seams never existed? sounds a bit like "Weapons of mass destruction" to me, nothing to see here move on-
I have no doubt as within any group, association, club, government, law enforcement, etc, that there could or would be a criminal element with in, obviously history clearly shows that ''biker Gangs'' have at times been involved in unsavoury illegal conduct, clearly a very small percentage of what groups are actually out there, so in no way do i condone this sort of activity- infact convict them in an efficient fair court system & lock the true convicted criminals up in a fair, balanced & humane prison system afforded by a civilised modern county such as ours: Tongue in check
END OF RANT
care to Read On? VLAD LAWS PDF Link Below
I decided to log in under my account (not as admin) as I'm interested in Bike laws around the world. I read this law and a lot of the commentary online.. The first observation I made was that I can't find any articles that support it. I searched and searched and as close as I could get was news sources that didn't really have a yeah or nay, but just reported it. I found that odd... these things usually have two sides..
The next thing I noticed was the "biker" community, while probably the easiest to target, is just in a long list of potential groups who have to take extra precautions to ensure they don't become targets.
Anyway, my question knowing nothing about life in your part of the planet, is about the whole "class" of criminal thing. I mean to say in these parts (USA) if you commit a crime, it has a sentence range. There are some "qualifiers" of HOW you committed the crime, such as "armed robbery" vs "theft" But in general a crime is a crime and it has a sentence range that the judge can apply. If you murder someone, it really doesn't matter if you do it with a knife, gun, or piano, it's murder and you'll be sentenced accordingly. So to the quandary... I don't understand this "if you commit a crime" and you are a "Vicious Lawless Associate" stuff. I'm all for criminals getting what's coming, but isn't this VLAD thing just going to cause "Criminal Elements" to essentially just hide that they are criminal elements and go about business as usual making them harder to spot.
It also seems like there is a loophole that the court not only has to prove the criminal is a "Vicious Lawless Associate" but what about all the counter suits by the criminal organizations saying "prove it".
I'm not weighing in on one side or the other, but from 10,000 miles away it seems that if they put as much money and effort into just catching the criminals as they are into putting labels on them, everyone might be a lot safer and happier.
Finally, and again.. the stupid yankee asking the question here... Do you elect the people that make these laws? I know nothing of how the government there works..
If anyone wants to explain this to me, I'd appreciate it. If you think it will deter from the message, that's cool, I understand. As I said at the top, I find how other countries implement all kinds of laws interesting.
Hi Miles, You are not the only one who doesn't understand it. What instigated these laws being rushed through was a fight on the Gold Coast between one guy who was a bikie and a dozen other guys who were rival bikies. Quite a few members of the one outlaw bike gang then got arrested. Their mates decided to march on the police station and demand their mates back. We don't have any Wyatt Earps in Australia. You have to have a Uni degree to be a police officer. So imagine the pedantic administrators that wear a uniform! That's why they need extra powers and they don't want groups of any description to gather together. The average man is just to much for them to handle, so let's put them into a class, label them, make them into bad guys like we are 8 years old and playing "goodies and baddies". This is the latest result of these laws;
And as to my comments about the police here being useless, check this out:
You are right mate, we have the same type of clubs here in Aus and they arent immune to this type of bullying.